Ruby [00:00:32]:
Hello. We are so excited to have a special guest here today. A dear friend of mine, Tammi Salas. She's a sober, dignified, creative woman, a creator, a painter, a list maker, a certified coach, a skilled facilitator, and former co-host of the wildly popular Unruffled podcast. A podcast that explored the intersection between creativity and sobriety. Tammi founded the Ray of Light online community and it started in September of 2021. And she co facilitates these weekly creative salons with her business partner, Corinne Bowen.
Ruby [00:01:22]:
She lives in Oakland, California, so near me, and daydreams about one day moving to Paris. I just want to say again, Tammi is a dear friend and has a really big part of my whole sobriety journey too. And we've actually met in AA and Sober Sisters in Sebastopol. She's the first one that got me into ocean plunges, and I've been a part of her Ray of Light community. So would you like to just introduce yourself to our listeners and provide a little background to your alcohol free journey?
Tammi Salas [00:01:56]:
Yeah. Thanks thanks for having me. Thank you very much, Susan and and and Ruby. So I think you said a lot of it right there, Ruby, but, I, I've been sober since February 3, 2015 and my last day drinking was on Groundhog Day, which I didn't realize until I was almost a year sober. I was like, oh, that fits. That's what it felt like. So on my journey, I got sober quite by accident.
Tammi Salas [00:02:25]:
I mean, it wasn't on purpose. I didn't know it was gonna be my day one, but I went to my doctor. My doctor helped me facilitate what they call that? Elimination diet where you were gonna eliminate alcohol and gluten and sugar and dairy. And I had gone to my annual physical and told the truth as much as I could. I realized now I didn't tell the whole truth, but at the time, I thought, oh, I'm really telling the truth here. I had a funny relationship with the truth, and I told her that I drink, you know, 21 drinks a week is what I told her. It was really double that, but I just didn't have the nerve to tell her that. And she was just really helpful and she looked surprised, but then kind of just said, what do you drink? You know, and at that time, it was bourbon.
Tammi Salas [00:03:12]:
And she just said, oh, bourbon, you know, breaks down to sugar. It's made from corn. She's very matter of fact about it. Didn't shame me. Didn't make me feel bad. I felt bad enough just because I was, you know, not feeling great all the time. I was seeing her all the time, and we couldn't figure out what was wrong. Well, I never told her about my drinking.
Tammi Salas [00:03:30]:
I always said I drink, like, 2 to 3 drinks a week. So I don't know if that resonates with anybody if you went to your doctor and did that, but, you know, I didn't ever really put the wrong number. So that started my journey. And about 7 months into my journey, 7 months and one day, I wrote a piece. I was writing a blog at the time that like, you know, 2 people read and I wrote that I thought maybe I might have more of a problem than I realized, you know, and that a friend read what I wrote. One of those 2 people, and she actually lives in Oakland now, but she was my former yoga teacher and she said, hey, sounds like you might be struggling with some things and, the word alcoholic and you don't like it and that's what I had written about and didn't know if I was one. And she says, why don't you try a 12 step meeting? And I said, oh, I yeah. I don't know what that is.
Tammi Salas [00:04:20]:
And she said, it's AA. I said, oh. I'm like, yeah. I I took that quiz they have, and I'm not an alcoholic. And she says, well, maybe take it again. So I did because I used to Google that stuff and do it in the middle of the night and I answered almost all of the questions. It was true that I was struggling with alcohol and I did identify with everything that was on that questionnaire And so she invited me to go to a meeting and said, hey. Why don't you go find a meeting and call me back and tell me about it or or write to me about it? And me being such a people pleaser, Ruby, it was like, okay.
Tammi Salas [00:04:57]:
I will go do that, and I will go check that off the list, and I will tell her I went and I'll tell her I'm not. I don't have a problem. I knew I had a problem, but it was hard and I didn't love the first meeting. I don't think many people do. But what I really liked was hearing the voices of others about their human condition. And I love memoir, and I love stories about people written by themselves or by others. You know? And I thought, I wanna come back and hear what these people have to say tomorrow. And then I was on a hunt for a meeting outside of where I live where I could be anonymous.
Tammi Salas [00:05:33]:
And a few months later, I got a sponsor, worked the 12 steps, and that's been my program ever since. But
Susan [00:05:38]:
Mhmm.
Tammi Salas [00:05:38]:
That was my beginning. It was not maybe your typical beginning, which I don't think everybody has such a different story, but it started with a doctor, and then I needed more. I needed more spirituality.
Ruby [00:05:53]:
It was my first AA meeting ever. You had done a share, and it was my first AA meeting and I just related to you. You talked about wine and you just exuded everything I wanted to be. You know?
Tammi Salas [00:06:15]:
So Well, I used to own a wine bar. So yes. You heard that in common, I think. Did you work at a winery or something, Ruby?
Ruby [00:06:22]:
Yeah. I worked in the wine industry and I thought, oh, she knows she knows what I'm talking about. Yeah. And so you mentioned, like, the importance of having a supportive community, a sober community. Would you like to share a little bit more about that?
Tammi Salas [00:06:49]:
Yeah. Well, when I was initially, you know, not drinking, I was training for a hike to hike Mount Rainier on my 6 months sobriety date, and that was great. And my friend that did it with me doesn't share my common problems. She's a wonderful friend. She lives in Jenner. I think you know her, Stephanie. And we would train with the kids for 6 months and that was kind of how I was doing it, but that poor girl had to listen to all my stuff. And so I realized I needed more than just one person to deposit this on.
Tammi Salas [00:07:16]:
Right? My husband kinda didn't get it. I thought I should be able to just, you know, have self will and just stop and not really like, what's the big deal? Why are you talking about this? It was really lonely. And so joining the 12 step program, I didn't wanna be friends with anybody at first, Ruby. I didn't wanna talk to anybody. Right? I wanted to go to the meetings and leave right when and then slowly these nice people who were so kind to me would invite me for coffee, and I'd be, I don't no. No. Thank you. I'd say it was about 3 months in that I finally was I think I've told this story before, Ruby.
Tammi Salas [00:07:49]:
I was at a women's meeting, and all the women would talk about going to tacos afterwards. And I would be like, where did these ladies go? Like, I was curious. Susan, I, like, was just hiding in the back row, last seat up against the wall just trying to be invisible. Right? And I would say, you know, we meet for tacos afterwards, but they never said where. And one day, I was, like, driving around town trying to find out where these women went after the meeting, just randomly driving to Sebastopol, couldn't find them. Why didn't I ask a question? Why didn't I re because I was just too afraid to ask anything. I didn't wanna be friends with these women. You know? This is just my thinking, my judgy thinking back then.
Tammi Salas [00:08:31]:
So then one day after a meeting, someone says, are you walking with us to tacos?
Tammi Salas [00:08:36]:
And so I was like a duck. You know, you just like all these all these women in the line, and I'm at the very end kind of waddling just I'm just gonna see where these ladies go. And then I got there, sat down, didn't really know anybody, was afraid. But there was, like, 30 people at that restaurant, you know, that took over on Tuesday nights, and then everybody just did fellowship and visited and talked and shared. And on that night, on my first night going there, someone said, hey. Do you have a sponsor? And I was thinking about it now. I'm like, I must have looked like a deer in headlights.
Tammi Salas [00:09:06]:
I must have just been like, how did you know? And I said, no. I said, yeah. Nobody talks about how you get a sponsor. Like, I don't understand how you get one. Like, everybody talks about getting one, but nobody talks about how you get one. And she said, oh, well, maybe you can work with this lady right here temporarily, and that's my sponsor. She had 30 plus years of sobriety and had something in common. And we started working and I said, you know, I'll give it a go.
Tammi Salas [00:09:32]:
I don't know how it works. And that night kinda changed everything, and I realized how important had I not gone to that taco place, had I not been awkward and uncomfortable in the back of the line just following along. But it was I think my higher power just led me to like what I needed. I can see that now. I didn't know it then. Yeah. And it's never been leading me all along to tell the truth about myself to my doctor. Right? To follow the ladies to Taco.
Tammi Salas [00:09:58]:
Like, that's kind of when I got out of my own way, I could see that I was being led. Yeah.
Susan [00:10:03]:
Wow.
Ruby [00:10:04]:
And then you did a podcast. Like, you are the inspiration for my wanting to host a podcast, I think, because I loved your podcast.
Tammi Salas [00:10:15]:
Oh, well, that was born from making connections. So I've been listening to Laura and Laura McCowen and Holly Whitaker's podcast Home. And religiously on Wednesdays, they dropped episodes, and I was waiting for it to drop every Wednesday. And, from that group, they had a secret Facebook group. They had, like, 200 women, and this is where I got the idea that you could have friends, like, from other places, you know, that you didn't have to know. Like, Susan, where are you at?
Susan [00:10:44]:
I'm in Connecticut.
Tammi Salas [00:10:45]:
Yeah. So you're all the way in Connecticut. Right? Ruby's out here. You could make these bonds. And I was watching, and like they say in the room, sometimes you wanna find a woman who has what you want. And it's not material or external things. It's really kind of this spiritual program or how you're grounded. And there was this woman named Sondra, and I kept listening to her shares or reading her posts on Facebook.
Tammi Salas [00:11:09]:
And I heard her on a podcast from right now, and she told my story, basically. And I heard her, and I was like, I wanna reach out to her, so I did. And we started having phone dates and Zoom dates. We had a lot in common. She had a lot of wisdom. She was also in the program. And we started dreaming up, like, let's have a podcast, you know, let's get Pat Benatar as our opening song. Let's do this and that.
Tammi Salas [00:11:34]:
We just had fun with it like a creative project. And so that kind of kept us going and kept us connected. And then my best friend passed away in February of 2017, and I had been in Austin the weekend before to meet Sandra for the first time. After that happened, after my friend passed away, I just called up Sandra and I was like, let's just do this. This thing that we've been talking about for 9 months, let's just figure it out. We're women who can figure stuff out. And so we did, and we launched it on April 1st, I think, of 2017, and it was called the Unruffled podcast. There's also a parenting podcast called the Unruffled.
Tammi Salas [00:12:10]:
That's not us, but the Unruffled podcast. You have to search for that. And we did it for 4 years, Ruby. Every week for 4 years, and we hit 1000000 downloads, and we were so happy but the pandemic hit, and we were a little tired. And I was going through a divorce. And so at that point, we just decided, you know, 4 years was a long time to do an accountability project, and it was a long time to talk about the same thing. You know, it's still very much a part of my life, but I just thought, well, do we have much more to say? I don't know if we do. So we very tearfully said goodbye to the podcast and our beautiful community.
Tammi Salas [00:12:46]:
So I started a new one. But I think community is key. I think community is key.
Susan [00:12:51]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's so amazing. There's so many parallels in your story. Like, so I am in Connecticut, but I grew up in Walnut Creek. So I'm very familiar with Oakland. That's where I fly into when I go to visit my parents. And Ruby and I met in a different community, This Naked Mind.
Susan [00:13:05]:
But interestingly, my pastor suggested that I go to AA. And being the dutiful people pleaser that I was, I'm like, okay. And so I did go to AA for about 8 months and then went back to drinking, actually. So that was just my first rodeo.
Susan [00:13:22]:
And then I went back to drinking for 5 years and then found this naked mind and went through that program. And then Ruby and I also met doing a RAIN partners meditation workshop.
Susan [00:13:32]:
And then we've been meeting for the past 2 years doing RAIN meditations together. And then that's and then that spring forward springboarded us doing this podcast together. So it's so interesting the difference I know. Parallels. Yeah. But how important friendship is, having somebody who gets it as is and community. Yeah.
Tammi Salas [00:13:55]:
Someone who shares my common problem, I can very easily connect with, and that common problem is alcohol. It's like you can cut as you know, you can just cut to the quick, you know, you just get right down to business. And, like, this week, I met a woman for coffee and she had reached out to me and she and she just said, can I have coffee with you to learn how you work your program because I do different things outside of 12-Step? And I was like, oh, of course. And so we talked and she's like, there's not a lot of people in 12-Step sometimes that understand this modern recovery that we're going through. You know, a lot of them take a lot of time, which is fantastic, but there are other ways now, and that has really changed. I mean, I got sober in 2015. This is light years away from where it was in 2015. And I think the pen I mean, just my personal I think the pandemic really kind of changed things.
Tammi Salas [00:14:44]:
You know? That's when different communities were born And, like, the luckiest club with Laura, I'm a teacher, a leader, and a meeting leader with Laura. And it's it's people all over the world that can tune in for a sobriety support meeting without a lot of dogma, and it's been
Susan [00:15:00]:
very helpful.
Tammi Salas [00:15:01]:
So there's all kinds of communities. And if you're getting sober, check them out. You know, there's what they say? There's some kind of saying like, it doesn't matter how sobriety is like an island and you're on the other side. It does not matter how you get there, I don't think. For me that works. But I don't. I don't care how you get there, just get there. And then I agree.
Ruby [00:15:19]:
And Yeah. I agree, Tammi. And I just would put everything in the kitchen sink at it. Yeah. You know, everything. All the books, all the communities I could find and, you know, therapy and everything. And whatever works for you, I agree with that. But isn't it beautiful that we can have these online communities? Like, your way of light community is I really feel connected.
Ruby [00:15:43]:
And then also in person is so important too, where you can actually hug someone and meet them for coffee. I think having both is the sweet spot. Yeah.
Tammi Salas [00:15:52]:
Well, yeah. The first time I think, you know, my friend Natalie, like, the first time we met, she was in the home no. She was in hip sobriety school with Holly Whitaker, and we were both in school together. This was back in 2016. And I kinda do the same thing. I kinda liked what she was posting, and she lived near me. And I reached out to have what I call now the awkward coffee date. Right? And so it feels awkward, and it feels like a first date kind of.
Tammi Salas [00:16:17]:
Right? And it is my 1st friendship date, and I just, like, do I need any more friends? I don't know if I need any more friends. You know? I'm good. But I was lonely, and I wanted to talk about this more and what was coming up for me. And when we met for coffee the first time, it was awkward. We both acknowledged that, and then we laughed about it, and then we dug in. And then we teased because the next time we went out, I said, do you wanna go on a second date? And we went to a day spot and we get there and she's like, you didn't tell me we'd be naked. And I was like, oh, I didn't think about that. And she was like, I'm not gonna be naked with you on a second date.
Tammi Salas [00:16:54]:
Anyhow, we had sarongs. It all worked out, and then we set up the 3rd date. And so I highly recommend this to people. Our 3rd date was going to Costco because I have anxiety, and I would get anxiety about Costco. She's like, oh, I'm a whiz at Costco. I'll meet you there. I'll help you. She's like, what part freaks you out? And I'm like, the parking lot.
Tammi Salas [00:17:10]:
And she's like, well, I'll do it. And so we just started practicing things together, and that felt less lonely. That felt like something, it was really beautiful when I think back on it. It's like we were just so new and so awkward and so kind of freaked out about everything, what people thought, but together, it didn't feel as alone. And I think that's just yet super important to have community and to have someone that you can lean on and understand.
Ruby [00:17:38]:
I'd love to also that's such a beautiful I love I'm gonna use that like an awkward coffee date. But how about our ocean plunges? So I saw your video and I thought, oh my gosh. I hate cold water. How could I do this? But then it was like a group of us, you know. And I was so scared, but it was this group of beautiful women. There were, like, 10 of us. And you I mean, it's so inspiring. And what did I think? I again, I keep looking for people that have what I want.
Ruby [00:18:13]:
And again, it's from the heart or how vibrant they are or how they're living life. You know? And this ocean plunge idea, I just took off with it.
Tammi Salas [00:18:24]:
The movie ran with this, and I love it so much. But that book came from just watching. I think it was the Goop Gwyneth Paltrow thing. Right? Like, they were in the pandemic trying to meet with Pimmin. When we first started meeting, we were still very much, like, in a big circle, 6 feet apart. You know, we were worried. There was so much fear, and I realized that my program has really helped me with fear through the pandemic in a very big way. But we did that, and everybody was so happy to just be out in the world with other people. And I didn't wanna go in the cold ocean, Ruby.
Tammi Salas [00:18:56]:
I've rarely gone in the ocean my whole entire life. But I knew that I knew that I wanted to reset my nervous system, and I I got trained by Jolene Park with Gray Area Drinking Coaching. And one of those things was really doing these exercises to regulate your nervous system. And I didn't realize how out of whack my nervous system was my whole life. And, you know, I was doing things to try to regulate it like drinking, but that didn't work so much. So Yeah. Doing the plunge, I felt invigorated afterwards. I got to hang out with really cool women.
Tammi Salas [00:19:24]:
And, you know, you met my friend Jen who's like my love. She's like my spiritual guide. And just we got to share, like, our people that we love. And Ruby, you would bring friends, and we would kind of all just get together on the 1st Sunday of the month, but Ruby took it like the next level, Susan.
Susan [00:19:41]:
I know. She's doing it every week. Every week she does it, which is so cool.
Ruby [00:19:45]:
These people that I didn't even know that well now have become my best friends. So there is room for new friends.
Susan [00:19:55]:
That's right.
Ruby [00:19:56]:
I know how you said, like, is there room for new friends? You asked yourself. But there isn't. And I found in sobriety that these are the best friends I've ever had in my life. You know, my ocean plunge friends helped me move, they're there for me. We are so close. Yeah.
Susan [00:20:15]:
It's vivid.
Tammi Salas [00:20:16]:
That's great. I mean, when we start when we get sober, we're, like, trying to find a new way of being in the world and finding new friendships and letting go of old ones sometimes. And at first, I felt I don't know if this resonates with you, but when I used to kind of play a little bit of a victim like, oh, my friends don't invite me to dinner parties anymore, and they don't they were trying to be respectful. My book club, I had to leave because they drank a lot. You know, I was really kind of pointing the finger out at everybody else. And through the steps and through my work, my personal work, I realized I left them. I started doing this thing where I needed to save my own life. And at first, I didn't think about it that way because it sounded too dramatic, but I definitely can look now and I'm not pointing the finger at them.
Tammi Salas [00:20:56]:
They're still being who they are, and that's okay. But for me, I no longer could exist in those social circles without feeling like I was on fire, you know. Yeah. I couldn't couldn't keep doing that. So when I made amends to some of the ladies, I was, you know, I just ghosted them basically. Right? And that's not cool. I can see that now, but I couldn't see that until I worked with another person in the program and I was helping her through something and I was like, oh my gosh. Light bulb.
Tammi Salas [00:21:23]:
I just did the same thing, and so I had to go back and repair that. And that's what's so beautiful about recovery though is this repair work, and then we don't have to stay stuck kind of in that cycle, and that's what's been really great. And to see other women doing it or sharing, you know, having a sober sister is what I just love because it's like we get ideas and we can learn from them.
Susan [00:21:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea in person because I started my program with This Naked Mind on June 1, 2020. So my whole experience has been in the pandemic and on Zoom. And so all my friends are on Zoom. I have, you know, we need the Marco group now, my old path friends. When Ruby and I met in person, it was so beautiful.
Susan [00:22:06]:
It's so funny because we also have been roommates. When we have met each other in person, we've been roommates at different events. And it's like, oh, yeah. Okay. Now we're good friends, and now we're naked. That's why, you know, I mentioned that I was like, yeah. That's so funny. Now we had been meeting on Zoom for, you know, like, 2 years, and then we met, you know, and roomed together.
Ruby [00:22:25]:
Yeah.
Susan [00:22:27]:
Why not? So that's so funny. But I am craving that in person. Yeah. Connection. And I've met different people from different communities in Connecticut now. And I think that's my next thing. I mean, this is actually solidifying that thought. It's kinda like, what's my next thing? I've been thinking about, you know, you know, the next few months.
Susan [00:22:50]:
And I think just, maybe seeing if I can reach out to a couple people and seeing if we can create an in person event because we're craving that. And to your point, like, do I need more friends or do but do some friends are there people who may need me, you know, giving back, you know, a little bit. And I do. I could use more friends for sure. In person friends that are called free or sober. And, yeah, I'm June Jolene Park's course starting in May. So I'm super excited about that. Yeah.
Susan [00:23:19]:
Yeah. Learning more. Okay. Maybe I will be there in the ocean here in Connecticut. Maybe I will be plunging. I'm not sure if that Long Island sound if that's where I wanna plunge, but we'll see.
Tammi Salas [00:23:29]:
We can start with tea. Yeah. Ready for tea. I used to have a group, I just love Ruby. I love the community. So I make up things. So I make my own fun and sobriety. I say that a lot.
Tammi Salas [00:23:40]:
Like, I just make my own fun. And we used to have a little group called Tea and Toolboxes and we would meet on Sundays, some gals or some friends of mine that were local and we'd bring what our tool that we use for the week was for sobriety, you know, because we were all trying to build our own sobriety toolboxes and so we would share.
Tammi Salas [00:23:56]:
And then we just end up having a community. And then another thing it was another community oh, I just forgot it. I joined another community. Anyhow, oh, it was sober entrepreneurs with small businesses. So, like, Ruby, you would be included in that, but I did that with Natalie, my friend Jessica, and everybody was sober. There's 5 of us, Anja, who owns the Altima, and these are women who are out about their sobriety. But we would meet and we would just talk about how to run our businesses as sober solopreneurs. Like, we're alone a lot.
Tammi Salas [00:24:24]:
We're isolated a lot. Tools that we use, calendar apps, how to do a podcast, like, all those types of things, we would just share openly.
Tammi Salas [00:24:32]:
It would be like a 2 hour meeting once a month, and it was great. It was really great. So you could create whatever you want, Susan. Okay. I'm inspired. I mean Yeah.
Tammi Salas [00:24:45]:
So after the podcast ended with Sondra, I still was craving community and I was getting a little bit just being on Facebook a lot was just getting draining, just all the comments and things. And so we still had an online community there and we held free meetings every Sunday, every Sunday morning for the almost the first two two and a half years of the pandemic for free for our listeners. And we did that every Sunday, and it just got a little taxing as you know when you have you're doing all things and so we started asking members to host Sundays, you know, and kind of take on that ownership of it too and being of service to the group. And around that time, I wanted to start a different community. I wanted to focus more on art and not the women who comprise the Rave Light community are in recovery from something.
Tammi Salas [00:25:36]:
I'd say a good 90% are in recovery from alcohol, but there are 10% that are not in recovery from alcohol. There are other things that they might be challenged with grief, loss, divorce, or they just wanna create with women, and that's it. You know, once a month a community and a half community. So I started it on my birthday on September 1st 2021 and it's been beautiful. And I've been running the community kind of me as the ringleader I always like to say. And then last fall I went to lead an alcohol free retreat in in Europe and I just got burnout and I realized being away from all the, you know, rigmarole and different hours and I was on the other side of the world, I'm like, I think I need someone to help me. Like, I think I need to ask for help like the program tells me to do. And so I reached out to Corinne, who has been my coach in the past, and asked if she would like to go into the ray of light with me and be my partner and run it and do the calls.
Tammi Salas [00:26:30]:
And that has just really reinvigorated everything, Ruby. It's been really great. So what the community is is we focus on a theme every month and an artist. So, like, this month our theme is behold. We usually pick a word. And then our artist is Vivian Meyer. I don't know if you know Vivian Meyer. Mhmm.
Tammi Salas [00:26:48]:
But there's a documentary called Finding Vivian Meyer. She's an American photographer, with a lot of mystery and mystique. She's no longer with us and so we encourage people to watch the documentary. We have a conversation and we're doing a photo project where people are partnering up this month and sharing one photo from their morning and be and and we're pairing them up today. And then we have a show and tell call where people share what they've created either based on the theme, the word behold, or physical art that they make or just an experience that they had. And it really is this beautiful kind of layout where every month we do the same kind of routine but with different themes and with different artists and there's just a lot of connection and beauty shared there.
Ruby [00:27:30]:
Yeah. Oh, beautiful. That sounds wonderful.
Ruby [00:27:36]:
Tammi, what do you do to Feel Lit alcohol free?
Tammi Salas [00:27:37]:
So I thought about that before coming on here, and I like to make art. I like to make connections. I like to make things beautiful. I got that from my mom and I realized my son told me one day when we were driving home, I said, oh, I hope I hope your father put the lights on on the porch. And he said, you really like the lights don't you mom? And I said, oh, they just make me so happy. And he goes, you make everything beautiful. And I was like,
Susan [00:28:06]:
Oh, that's so sweet.
Tammi Salas [00:28:07]:
And so to feel that I realized I was numbed out for a lot of my life, you know, either self soothing as a kid and with food or chocolate or whatever I was doing. And as an adult and owning a wine bar, I definitely drank. When I felt uncomfortable or anxious and people came into the shop, I just drank. And so I didn't have really healthy coping mechanisms. And now I try to joke around like I use my powers for good now. You know? I have this little studio down stairs. I just got a studio in Berkeley, Ruby. I'll be teaching some classes out there.
Tammi Salas [00:28:38]:
Maybe you can come out. Yes. But making art, making with my hands, one thing I learned from Jolene Park in Gray Area Drinking was about these ing activities, you know, cooking, drawing, painting, gardening. Ing activities really help change the neural pathways in your brain.
Tammi Salas [00:28:58]:
I think I intuitively knew that when I got sober because that's how I started with this accountability project of, like, making art in my journals. And I think to feel lit, I wanna keep my word to myself. I wanna keep my word to myself, and so that's why I set up these accountability projects or community or somewhere where I can be accountable or sponsor women because that really that lights me up. That makes me really feel whole, and that's kind of what I've been looking for, I think.
Ruby [00:29:25]:
Yeah. I love that so much.
Susan [00:29:29]:
Yeah. I really relate. When I'm visiting California, I want to meet you in person. I would love to meet you and see your studio, and I'm hoping to have some more extended time out there with my family.
Tammi Salas [00:29:42]:
Just so glad you reached out.
Susan [00:29:43]:
Such a blessing to meet you. Aw.
Ruby [00:29:46]:
Yeah.
Tammi Salas [00:29:46]:
I'm so happy you're both doing this, listening to your calling, the synchronicities where your paths intersect. Like, that's what the Unruffled podcast is about. Where's my creativity intersect with my recovery? And I found that it intersected more often than I knew. You know? And then you can still create those intersections. And what you're doing, you and Ruby are doing, is just amazing. This is gonna serve so many. Yeah.
Tammi Salas [00:30:07]:
Yeah. Thank you. So Latest thing that's coming up. Let's see. Oh, I'm going to see Rob Bell, Ruby. Oh. I'm very excited about that. Absolutely.
Tammi Salas [00:30:19]:
And then I'm going to go to Ojai and take a class with him because we're working. I'm working on a project with Corinne that we wanna bring to fruition. But where people can find me is my website, my website is tammisales.com. And at the bottom of my website, there's a link to get on my mailing list, and I send out a substack every, every Sunday I try to send that out. And it's a little bit of life and creativity and sobriety and just kind of what's on my mind. I've been doing podcasts there, little mini podcasts. I did one with my son. My son is a magical and talented collage artist and so we are going to maybe teach a collage art class this summer when he's home from college. And, all of this can be found on my on the substack.
Tammi Salas [00:30:59]:
That's where I'm trying to just streamline everything there because otherwise, I feel too spread out socially on social media. But I do love a good story. I like my stories on Instagram so I'm at tammy solids babe.
Susan [00:31:11]:
Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Yay.
Tammi Salas [00:31:14]:
Thank you so much, both of you. Thanks for having me. Thank you.
Ruby [00:31:18]:
Tammy, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate you.
Susan [00:31:26]:
Yeah.
Ruby [00:31:29]:
Great. Thanks. Okay. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to the Feel Litt Alcohol Free Podcast. Do you have a question you'd like us to answer on the show?
Susan [00:31:38]:
All you need to do is head over to Apple Podcasts and do 2 simple things. Leave a rating and review telling us what you think of the show. And in that review, ask us any questions you have about breaking free from wine or living an alcohol free lifestyle. That's it.
Ruby [00:31:54]:
Then tune in to hear your question answered live. Don't forget to grab your copy of a wine free weekend at www.feellitpodcast.com.
Susan [00:32:05]:
And remember, do something today that will help you feel lit. See you next time.
