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Sober & Lit Podcast
Real talk for women ditching alcohol to feel lit — alcohol free.
Sober & Lit is the podcast for women who are ready to rethink their drinking, take their power back, and build a life that actually feels better without booze.
Join alcohol freedom coaches Susan Larkin and Ruby Williams for honest conversations, relatable stories, and real-life tools to help you get sober, stay sober, and feel truly lit — alcohol free.
Whether you're sober-curious, cutting back, or already alcohol-free, you’ll find powerful support, tools, coaching strategies, and laughs along the way.
No shame. No labels. No rock bottom required. Just freedom, clarity, and the peace you’ve been craving.
New episodes weekly — tune in and get ready to feel lit alcohol-free.
Sober & Lit Podcast
Navigating Loss and Gratitude: Finding Light in an Alcohol-Free Lifestyle with Pam McRae / Ep. 011
Welcome to the "Feel Lit Alcohol-Free Podcast" where Ruby and Susan ignite conversations that spark inspiration and growth. Today, they welcome a remarkable guest, Pam McRae, the head coach for "This Naked Mind," to delve deep into a topic close to many hearts: coping with loss and the quest for solace without alcohol. In this episode they answer a listener’s question: How do you cope with big losses when there are times you want to escape for just a brief while? I have been navigating very painful changes and choices of those close to me. It’s natural to want to soften the pain during intense times like these. How do you manage without chemically altering yourself?”
The conversation delves into the theme of coping with loss and the desire to escape without alcohol. Together, they explore the importance of acknowledging and processing emotions, finding solace in small moments of joy, and seeking healthier coping mechanisms.
Speaker Bio:
Pam McRae knows firsthand the pain of loss and the struggle of navigating through grief in a society that often dismisses it. After experiencing several deeply personal losses, she realized the lack of understanding and support for those dealing with grief. Determined to change the narrative, she's become a passionate advocate for acknowledging and validating the pain of loss. Pam is dedicated to helping others embrace their unique grieving process and find the support they need. She believes that everyone's journey through grief is different and deserves to be respected and honored. Through her own experiences and advocacy, Pam is working to create a more compassionate and empathetic approach to grief in our society.
You can find more about Pam here: https://thisnakedmind.com/coach/pam-mcrae/
Timestamp
00:00 Coping with loss and avoiding alcohol temptation.
04:37 Grief is overlooked,
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It is strongly recommended that you seek professional advice regarding your health before attempting to take a break from alcohol. The creators, hosts, and producers of the The Feel Lit Alcohol Free podcast are not healthcare practitioners and therefore do not give medical, or psychological advice nor do they intend for the podcast, any resource or communication on behalf of the podcast or otherwise to be a substitute for such.
Sick and tired of your love hate relationship with wine? Welcome to the feel it alcohol free podcast. Hi. I'm coach Ruby Williams. And I'm coach Susan Larkin.
We are 2 former wine lovers turned alcohol freedom coaches exposing the lies about alcohol
and giving you, our listeners, the tools to break free so you can feel lit. And when you're lit, you'll feel healthier, freer, and more in control of your life. So relax, kick back, and get ready to feel lit alcohol free. And don't forget, grab a copy of our wine free weekend guide after the show. Hey. Welcome back. We are so excited to be here. We have a special guest with us today, and we had a great, great question in our Facebook group.
So we brought Pam McRae on to help us answer this question. So I wanna just read the question, and then we'll introduce Pam, and we'll go from there. So this question is, how do you cope with big losses when there are times you wanna just escape for a brief while? I've been alcohol free for three and a half years, and the confidence, clarity, and peace I have gained is undeniable. But I've been navigating very painful changes and choices for those close to me, and it's natural to wanna soften the pain during those intense times like these. How do you manage without chemically altering yourself? Wow. That is such a good question. It is. That is the reason why people sometimes turn back to alcohol because it's so cult in our culture, like, oh, around funerals or, you know, you come home from the hospital of dealing with, you know, whatever, and you just wanna numb, and I get that.
I totally totally empathize with this listener about wanting just to numb. So it
is such a great, yeah, it's such a great question. And Susan and I thought, who better to bring in than Pam McCray, the head coach for This Naked Mind? Pam is someone who grew up believing alcohol added so much to her life, only to realize how untrue that was. So she ventured in on her alcohol free life, and after suffering some several losses, she decided she wanted to help others manage grief and trauma and moving forward without alcohol. So, Pam, I am just so excited that you're here. And will you tell us a little bit about your story and how did you become a grief expert?
Sure. I am just first off, I wanna say thank you so much for having me. Susan and Ruby, this is just such an honour to not only spend time with you but also just spread the word. But I'm just gonna sort of caveat what you said right off the bat, Ruby, with group ex with grief experts. Sorry. I gotta get my words right there. To me, there is no such thing as an expert around grief because everybody's grief is so individual. Everybody's loss, everybody's pain is so individual.
So I like to look at myself just as someone that can help you navigate those tough times like that reader put in around wanting to escape and what it's like to truly feel the feels. So I just wanted to throw that in right off the bat.
That's okay.
A little bit about me. Yeah. Thanks.
That's awesome.
Little bit about me as Ruby said, I mean, alcohol was my everything. It was the elixir to my life. It, I started when I was about 13 off and on, continued. I held the belief that it helped me with anything and everything. And when I finally realized that I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, which you will hear so many people talk about when they're going alcohol free. It was time for a change. And all of a sudden, it was like, wow. I have freedom.
I gave up alcohol, which is something I never thought I could do, and I'm fully free. I think of alcohol as much as I think about a jar of mayonnaise in the back of my fridge. It's just it's not within my thinking. And when I became alcohol free, life still continues. Life still gets lifey. Mhmm. And in the span of just over a year, I had 3 very dramatic losses in my life. Wow.
That truly, truly hurt right to my core. And I realized that grief is very similar to going alcohol free that nobody talks about it. Nobody wants to bring it up and just say, you know what? I hurt people. Society think, oh, okay. You know, I'm really sorry you lost your best friend or your dad or your dog or your cat or your job or your house, whatever it is, because grief can be a loss of anything. Mhmm. But it's 3 days later, and now let's get back to work or let's get back to doing things. And that's so wrong because everybody's process is different.
Just like everybody's process about going alcohol free is different. And the more we can talk about it and the more we can bring it out into the open to say, you know what? I hurt today And make that okay. There's nothing wrong with that.
Mhmm. Yeah. And what I hear is I love that I hurt today. It's temporary. Right? Like, it's it's an emotional roller coaster around losses and grief and yeah. So I love your story, Pam. Thank you.
Yeah. So, Pam, how would you address this question with this this reader who is alcohol free three and a half years, but now dealing with all these really hard things and wanting to just temporarily numb. And I totally get that. You know?
Oh, I I totally get that too. It's because we don't you know, we as humans, we wanna run towards pleasure. We wanna run towards feeling good. We don't we don't run towards pain. We don't say, hey. You know what? I wanna hurt today. Let's let's try that for a day. We want to feel good.
So when we have these deep, intense pain of hurt or sadness or grief, our automatic reaction is to run from them. And my my answer to that, it's it's kind of twofold, is the best way around it is through it. Mhmm. When we can feel something, it will pass. Mhmm. And also to always keep in mind what we resist persists. So if we want to escape something like by having a drink, all we're doing is pushing that emotion down. We're not allowing our our mind and our body to feel it because it's both mind and body.
Mhmm. We wanna be able to process this. So what other ways can we find other than drinking to escape for a minute? For me, going to the gym. Mhmm. You know, if I've got an intense emotion that, and this is what I used with the 3 deaths that I went through. I went to the gym and gave it everything I had. I mean, I was out of breath and I was exhausted and but it processed through me. I was crying through workouts, but it allowed me to feel the emotion and then continue to move through.
Wow. That's amazing. I remember crying when I was on the treadmill once, and then you start to, like, hyperventilate. You have to get off and go, and people are looking at you at the gym like, what's going on with this crazy lady over here? Yeah. That's so great. That's great. How what other ways would you work with a a client, say, that came to you with with, you know, like, I'm, you know, really dealing with a lot of these hard things.
There there's a couple of others. One that I really like is looking for the glimmers and being able to I mean, for one example, when I lost the last recent death that I went through was sudden of my best friend, who was my age, just very brief story, trimming a tree, tree trunk fell, hit him on the head. He thought he was okay, went and lied down and died.
Oh my god.
I'm so sorry. So sudden. Thank you. So sudden and so tragic and such a beautiful, beautiful person. And there were times where my heart hurts so much, and I was so angry. Mhmm. And then something would happen, and it could be something as simple as my puppy coming over to me and just sort of nudging my arm or the sun rising in the morning. And what I looked for was those little glimmers, something that made me smile just a tiny bit and being able to notice those and see those, all of a sudden, I was able to take a breath and say, okay.
You know what? It hurts a lot right now. But seeing those glimmers means that you're gonna be okay. Yeah. And if we drink to escape, we miss them.
Mhmm.
Absolutely. They're fleeting. They happen really, really quickly.
Yeah. Yeah. I love that, the glimmers. That's so beautiful. Just being grateful in the moment and aware in the moment. I that's such a beautiful I I see that oftentimes with different that word, the glimmers, and I love it. And you mentioned about, like, moving, and that just reminded me, like, I just went through a move and I wanted to numb. I wanted to escape.
I didn't realize it was gonna be so challenging to go you know, when you move, you you're packing up all of your memories, and you're going through all of your stuff, and everything's coming up. So what I did was I just doubled down on my meditation and mindfulness. I did mindful guided meditations. I went back to and it's kind of the same, just to really to process and and and hugging my dog. Oh, I love that one too. I had a lot of bagel hugs. But going through it in the moment, I just I just wanna say too to this this listener that it's I really relate. I call it, like, different different things pop up that that help me numb.
And and TV can be numbing for me. I don't know if it is for but I can just, like, binge watch a show. And and as long as I don't judge that, I just need that time to kinda be down, and that's okay, and it's entertaining. It's when I start judging it, I think, is when I have more of a problem with it personally, because I think we all do need downtime. We do need time to to escape in a way, whether it's exercise or walking or meditation. And I'd love to hear what you you do, Susan, too.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm I love reading. I was a a big reader as a kid, and sometimes that's where you can find those things is if you go back and look at your childhood and think about, like, what are the ways, you know, that you coped somewhat as a child. Like, I read a lot, and I think it was a coping mechanism in some ways. I mean, I like me and my cousin, we had a competition to see who could read all of the Nancy Drew books, and I think I did. So, you know, that was like 4th through 6th grade, you know, when I was reading those kind of things, A Little House on the Prairie, etcetera. So now I've noticed that and my husband even noticed this.
Like, he said the other day, do you have a novel that you're reading? Because I've been a little out of sorts, and I noticed that I just need that. It's a huge escape for me just to dive into a novel. It, like, consumes all of me. I just get so into the story, and I've even combined feet up the wall and reading as such a relaxing way before I go to bed. I, like, lay there with my Kindle. And even I did it even when Ruby and I were rooming together when we went to Atlanta recently. It's just I just read a couple of chapters, and then I'm just fully relaxed. Like, it is really so I always need want to have some sort of novel going, not self help.
That's not what you wanna read when you're trying to to regulate your your, nervous system because, yeah, it is easier to grab a bottle of wine than it is to go, okay, I gotta get the yoga mat out and I gotta do my yoga. Like, you just you do need to make that conscious effort of like, okay, This is what I'm choosing instead and seeing I think in a moment when I had a really, really rough time and I my thoughts went to alcohol, I was like, okay, that's just a tool and I need to choose a different tool and and not even beat myself up. Sometimes I think people, we beat ourselves up for having the thought of drinking. Right? Mhmm. And it's just a tool. Okay? It's just a tool. Yeah. I thought of it because it's a tool that I've used in the past, but I'm gonna choose a different tool and just, you know, don't have that second arrow of judging yourself even for having the thought of drinking Or even if you do drink, you know what I mean, and you just get up the next day and go, okay.
Yeah. I made that choice. I chose that. I don't want that's not really what I want in in my life, and I'm you know, don't let it become like a 3 week drink. You know? Like, just go, oh, yeah. You know what? I made that choice. That's not a choice I really wanna make. Choose again.
Choose again. You know? Make a different choice. I don't know. What do you think about that, Pam?
Oh, I I so agree. And it sort of reminds me of choose your hard.
Mhmm. Yeah.
You know? Do I want to yes. It's hard right now. You know, as Ruby described with her moving, that's hard.
Yeah.
But to choose our hard, do I wanna face this head on and get through it right now? Or do I wanna postpone everything I'm feeling and deal with it again and again and again.
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. And I forgot to choose meditation. Yeah. Or books or, you know, whatever it is, hugging your dog, that allows you to process it right now.
And I forgot to share that one of the days after I was done with a lot of the move, I spent about 2 hours just sobbing. And it was such a relief, though. I I just let myself because I was holding it all together. Right? I have to, you know, pack and clean and move and do this and do that. And all of a sudden, I just it was raining outside, and I said, I'm gonna take this these 2 hours. I just sobbed and I had and and I think that's part of it too is to feel the sadness. Feel it. Like, I really felt it because it was also the day that my son went back to Hawaii.
He was visiting me.
So it
was like this compounded thing, like, I'm so sad. But having a good cry is a really good relief. That's the pressure off. And then I it felt better. Yeah. Yeah.
Crying is, yeah, something that I probably would drink over in the past. I didn't like to cry. Yeah. I would cry and drink. Yeah. That's so good.
Something else too that's really prominent with anyone that suffers any type type of grief or loss is that mix of emotions. Emotions. You know, Ruby mentions that severe sadness, but I bet you somewhere in there, there was also excitement because I'm moving and I'm, you know, I'm gonna be in a new place and recognizing that any emotion you feel is a valid emotion. Yes. Yeah. You know? Yeah. For example, when my dad passed, of it's my father. I mean, he's the first man I ever loved.
And I was devastated and very sad, but I was also happy because he had lived a life beautifully, passed away exactly how we wanted to, and we were all together. Mhmm. So that brought a bit of happiness and a bit of, okay, dad, you're at peace. Yeah. You know? And recognizing that these emotions are okay to coexist together, and they're okay to be happy or relieved or sad or angry or frustrated or, I mean, you pull out the emotions, Will. You can have all of them going on, and that's okay. They're your emotions and they're valid.
Yeah. And and there's no good or bad emotions. They're they're emotions. I when someone told me that, I was like, oh, you're so true. They're just emotions, and you just move through them. And I love what you just said, Pam, because, actually, even with the move, I was like, I was so grateful. I had the last place that I lived for 10 years. I was so grateful.
You know? I just was like and it it made me think of you were so grateful to have your father, right, for all those years.
Yeah.
And then but I'm excited too to see what's in my future, what's new, what's what's this new place gonna bring me. You know? And so,
yeah, I kinda wanted to to pick out what you said, Pam, about relief too. Because I think sometimes when people are dealing with a a long illness or something that's going on and on, that you can feel that and just feel super guilty about it. You know what I mean? About you know? And and this what and our mindset too about our feelings. Like Ruby said that we're we're built to feel all the feelings. I think sometimes the mind, the thought that we have that may be driving us to driving us towards numbing is I can't handle this. I can't handle this right now.
Mhmm.
My, you know, my body physically meant you know, and so what using some of the techniques, you know, that we coaches use about, is that really true? Is you know, we are built for all emotions, and we're not really taught that either. Right? You know, these are the
classes we need
to have in high school, like emotions 101, you know, that
you 100%.
Yeah. Like, oh my gosh. When have I ever used algebra or, gosh, fractions? I run I stay away from anything math. We could've we really could've used some emotional safety classes in high school. Yeah. Just learning that, okay, you can feel all the emotions. You can sob for 2 hours, like, you know, Ruby said, and you're gonna still be okay. Your body was meant to feel all emotions.
We just culturally say we can only handle the good ones or even labeling them good or bad. Right? Mhmm. So, yeah. I have not fortunately have not had had to deal with my parents yet, you know, death in my family, but we did when I was early on alcohol free. I was in the path at the time, the the snake of mine path, and my father-in-law was in hospice. And we I flew out. It was during COVID. It was 2020, and I flew out to LA.
And it was just surreal to be in a hotel during COVID. You know? And, fortunately, the bars none of the bars or restaurants were open. I think that was very helpful for me. But, you know, when you said before about being really uncomfortable around those feelings, I was definitely very uncomfortable. Like, if I was drinking, I would have been drinking a lot. And it was took everything I had in those it was day 89, I think, of the 100 days. And I was it took everything I had to to not drink during that time. And everyone else was drinking and I was over in the corner going never questioned that decision.
Never questioned that decision, you know, trying not to drink. Yeah. But I was very, very uncomfortable with the grief, with the all those emotions. So it's something for me to really think about, you know, as I'm in my mom's 80 and my dad's 85, you know, and they don't live forever. So I know we're in that sandwich generation of dealing with hard things with our kids and then hard things with our parents. Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. It seems like almost every client is is dealing with with 1 or both of those, you know, teenagers or or young adult children. Call them children sounds weird, but, like, you know, that and then or parents, the aging parents or so that happens a lot. So when I go back to the question that was submitted, which was such a good question, I just I want, you know, 3 and a half years alcohol free. You know, I'm 4 and a half years alcohol free. I still am navigating wanting to numb and escape, and it's just a part of life. I think this is what life gets lifey. And but it's all about what other tools and and I love this question you can ask yourself.
How is numbing really gonna help? You know, that's a question you can ask yourself. And there's so many other tools, including journaling, breath work, all of these kind of tools that you could use to just slow yourself down, get present, and try to find a glimmer. Right, Pam?
That's it. That's it. Exactly. You know? And also asking yourself, how will numbing myself help me? You know? How will it allow me to move forward? How will it allow me to move through this? It's an automatic response. Again, we wanna I the first word that comes to my mind is cower from these things.
Mhmm. Mhmm.
But we don't if we stand tall and face them, you know, even a power pose. Okay. I'm feeling really angry. I'm gonna do a power pose. Bring it on. Let's feel these emotions. I can do this.
Yeah. We can do hard things. You've already done all the hard things in life already. Right? When when you have that thought, like Susan was saying, that I can't handle this, but we actually we can you can handle it. We can handle it without going to alcohol. We can. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And then how how are you gonna be available for this emergency? Like, that's the that I love hearing that from clients when they're like, oh, my son broke his leg, and I was so grateful that I wasn't drinking that night so that I could drive him to the hospital. And then, of course, you have all your faculties and you can ask the right questions. So how I mean, yeah, it could be a super tough time with a long term illness for a loved one. But if you're numbing with alcohol at night every night, how much less faculties do you have? How much less wisdom? You don't have your spark to be able to care for them. And, you know, all the things we know about alcohols that, you know, lessens your immune system, so then are you gonna get sick because you're dealing with so much stress and then drinking over it, you know, and, you know, taking care of yourself too while you're navigating something really, really hard. You know, alcohol, as we know, is not a self self help.
It does not help us. You know? So, yeah, that's that's really a good thing to to think about. And, like, what is how does that make you feel? The you know, I can't handle this. I need to numb every night just would make me feel really unempowered and not at versus I can't handle this, and then just how that helps you tap into even more wisdom to be able to deal with this situation every day. Mhmm. You know, if it's a long term term or just, you know, sometimes life just throws, like, with you, Pam, 3 things in 1 year. You're just like everything comes like a tsunami at once, you know, and then you get a flat tire on top of it.
You know?
It's like and you're like, excuse me. Thank you. So yeah. Oh my gosh. Hard life is hard. Life is lifey all the time. You know?
And when you think about it, you know, especially going back to that statement, Susan, I can't handle it. If you stop just for a second and say, you know what? Right here, right now, right in this moment, I'm handling it right now. Yeah. Right now. Just for this second, I'm handling it.
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
And all of a sudden that okay. You know what? I am handling it just right now.
Right.
So maybe in 5 minutes, I'll be able to handle it again and continue that on with right now. I'm okay.
Mhmm. Yeah.
I'm safe. It's hard, but I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm standing. I'm breathing. Mhmm. I'm speaking. I'm talking.
Okay. I can handle this.
Yeah. Yeah. I use that tool too where you kinda just get into your body. I put my hands here, but, like, I'm safe. I'm loved. I'm okay. And it just puts you right into your body, into the present moment, you know, and you're just you're you are okay in the moment when you when you say those words. That's beautiful, Pam.
And it also made me think about, like,
Pam, when you just said that about also being differentiated, like, this idea of we don't have to even though we're dealing with something really hard with another person, we don't have to jump into that person's boat and be completely overcome by that situation. We are we are better if we are ourselves and whole and taking care of ourselves in order to walk alongside that person
Yes.
Or pull our boat up next to that person and be a support. But we are not serving them or ourselves if we jump into their boat and become overcome by everything that they're dealing with. And when my daughter was in has and she she's out there with this. So she had an eating disorder when she was 24, and I just see so many young people having sort of this quarter century crisis. I mean, I just know so many friends whose have have had this, not necessarily eating disorder, but super big depression or anxiety, you know, right when they get out into the world with their first job. So my daughter was in treatment, month long treatment for eating disorder, and they explained it so well there. They explained it because it's hard as a parent. She's an adult.
She's 24, and we're her parent. And it's like, how do we some so they explained it as these dolphins. So when a dolphin's a baby, the dolphin carries the baby on her back, right, when they're children. And then the dolphin goes along then the baby dolphin or the kid dolphin, I don't know what they're called, and swims alongside them. And then the mom doll dolphin goes in front, and the baby dolphin follows, and then they're an adult and they swim off by themselves. So here, as a parent navigating with a child in this situation, we come alongside we're not gonna, like, let the baby dolphin ride on us, you know, but we come alongside and then we can lead. Like, so it was just, I don't know. I love that analogy of, like, okay.
No. But we are coming alongside you. You are an adult, but we are coming alongside you to support you during this really hard time. And then maybe we can lead and then maybe you'll be and then what you know, you will be able to go back out off on your own again. So I felt that that was really a helpful analogy, parents dealing with adult children going through hard things.
I love it.
Yeah. I
love that too. Dolphins.
Yeah. I know. I love dolphins too. Yes. So yay. So well, I think we are at the time of our episode where we always ask each other, and we are asking our special guests here today what you do, Pam, in your life to feel lit in your alcohol free life.
I love this question because I think it's so important to be able to recognize what it is to feel lit and what lights you up. And for me, I I have 2 things. Being outside with my dogs, walking them every morning, that just lights up my day. That starts me on the right track. And I'm a big gym person. I love going to my classes and having that that whole energy when I'm done the class. And it's like, you know what? I feel good. I feel lit.
That's amazing.
Those are those are my 2.
Awesome. And isn't it nice that you can do that every day?
Yeah.
I I love that. I've to me, walking my dog, also, I'm gonna relate to that, Pam. It's like Yeah. It's the most beautiful part of my day is just getting out in nature in the morning, walking my dog. Just, I love it. Yeah. I that's when
Especially being alcohol free now.
Mhmm. Yeah.
You know, I can remember because I've had dogs forever, and I've walked them every morning forever. And there's so many mornings I had a hat on and a hood and just sort of looking down and, oh, I'm just doing this because I have to. And now I mean, even this morning, I got up and it's cold out here in Ontario, but the sky was this magnificent pink. And there was clouds and the birds were chirping, and I thought I'm present for all of that, and that lights me up.
Oh, awesome. Hey, Pam. I think you're a a member of our Facebook community, I think, of the feel it.
I am.
Would you post a picture of what it looks? I'm so curious of what does it look like in Ontario this time of year when you're out walking your dogs? Or I don't know. I'm maybe asking too much, but I I would love to see that and just picture it, and and maybe Susan can do it too. And, yeah, what does it look like? I love to look at all the parts of the world and and just imagine feeling lit in Ontario.
Sunrises are gorgeous. I I love being out walking when the sun is coming up. It's just magnet because it's different every day. Yeah. Every day, it's something different.
Yeah. The world is a beautiful place. I mean, it's not beautiful in Connecticut right now. The daffodils are starting to bloom. There's a few. It's we, you know, when you have the 4 seasons, we go through like the ugly season. It's kinda the ugly season right now. Ugly season.
I hear you. I hear you with that one. But I
love the forsythia, which is yellow, and the daffodils. And those are the first two things that usually come up and and some of the pink cherry blossoms. Those are nice. We really appreciate the spring, the flowers when they start to come up because I grew up in California until until I moved to Connecticut. I was shocked when when everything just went away in the winter. Like, all the plants, you know, they they go dormant, and then, and I love perennials. I'm just obsessed with them because it's like they go away, and then they come back every year. And I was just like, that's it's a miracle.
And but Ruby lives in beautiful, beautiful wine country with all the vineyards and, yeah. I just send her pictures of the snow. She's like, I wanna see snow. I'm like, okay. So
I'll send you pictures this weekend. We're supposed to have a big snowstorm here this weekend, so I'll send you pictures.
I hate that. I hate that.
I don't want snow, but that's okay. It will melt. Yes. Just just like emotions that feel that you need to escape, it will it will all pass. Oh. The snow will melt.
It's temporary.
I love that. Perfect. Oh, perfect. We could, like, wrap
this up with a bow and say, yes, that you're going through hard times, and it's just a season of hard times. And the seasons change, and the flowers will bloom again. There. How is that how does that sound to
you? I love it. Perfect. I love it. Awesome. Oh, so great. Well, thanks so much for listening, and we will see you next time. And thank you for joining us, Pam. See you next time.
00:32:42 - 00:32:42Exclude
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me. It's just been my honor to be with you too.
Thank you. It's been our honor having you here. Thanks so much for listening to Feel It Alcohol Free Podcast. Do you have a question you'd like us to
answer on the show?
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